You cant only experience deep gratitude at the toenails that you seriously wish someone else would have cut, because seriously, whos doing this around here? Adjust the colors to reduce glare and give your eyes a break. Kelly Corrigan Wonders on Apple Podcasts 296 episodes Welcome to Kelly Corrigan Wonders, a place for people who like to laugh while they think and find it useful to look closely at ourselves and our weird ways in the hopes that knowing more and feeling more will help us do more and be better. Kerri, She was really, really into manners, and as kind of an act of gratitude, not in an uptight, British way, but as a Look at us eating a meal together, like, Nobody should eat before the last person gets down. When bestselling author Kelly Corrigan experienced the death of her dad and dear friend back-to-back, she couldnt shake the feeling that she wasnt living as gratefully as she wanted to. But I asked the doctor what the right term for me might be, and he said Survivor-in-progress, which was super annoying. I was so mad that I shook the cage a bit, that hamster eating its sibling. I think part of why your book is so moving is the way that these sayings crystallize these really big truths about who we are, and also how we should love each other. Kareem means generous. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Kelly Corrigan:So, my dad died in February, and then my friend Liz, whos the mother of three kids, 8, 10, and 12 at the time, died that December. You are in good company. Kelly Corrigan:I sat at my dining room table, which is place I never write, and I thought, Oh my God, of course I know exactly what this is. Diana, Welcome to Kelly Corrigan Wonders, a place for people who like to laugh while they think and find it useful to look closely at ourselves and our weird ways in the hopes that knowing more and feeling more will help us do more and be better. Kate Bowler:I guess Ill see you soon. I was wrong. Kate Bowler:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was wrong, and that is very soothing, but then that took me back to this moment where I had gone to work for United Way after college, because I was going to save the world, and I was this total do-gooder. Im a questioning Christian (if there is such a thing) since I doubt youd ever see the Son of God appear in any of the beautiful Catholic or mega churches that apparently represent Him. You know, I honestly think I only say Im sorry, and not, I was wrong. I think I might try it. Gratefully, Like, Today could be this day, well, you know, today I met you, now were friends, and who knows whats going to happen now? Today, I get a chance to talk to Kelly about some of her very best phrases. Kelly Corrigan:You dont always need such a plan, or an agenda, or whatever. You understand what you did wrong., Kelly Corrigan:So to me, that felt very different than saying, Im sorry. Kelly has also agreed to be my friend as part of her contractual commitment to this podcast. Okay, great. Kelly Corrigan:Have you ever heard that potted plant theory? I do need to be reminded of this often There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. Team Everything Happens. Hes just one of those people that you think, God, if I could get five minutes with him, Id just tell him my biggest problem, and hed just say something in seven words that would solve everything., Kelly Corrigan:So, eventually I went up to him, and I said, Im caught between these two worlds, this world where Im full of clarity and insight and gratitude, and Im seeing all the big colors of the world. I dont have the genetic predisposition. Youre going to slide around, you know, youre going to deserve your life a little more some days than others. She lives in Philly and I live in California. Describing the middle school drama teacher as the first person who believed in her, she imparts her gratitude for him coming to her defense as a young student. Both Kate and Kelly are remarkable women and in tandem they make for great listening. Thank you for helping me think more deeply about my words; not just the words I speak to others but the words I speak to myself. I think we should be talking about five percent of the time. Such is a reminder that success is the result of joined efforts and that all of us are touched by the ripples of others contributions. Recently I coined maintain the faith, exit with grace. So, I really appreciated the way that you framed the bigness and the smallness of it, because it has to be both. It kind of reminded me though, when I was little, my family used to have these mottos, but the mottos were stuff like, Dont get crumbs on the baby, or Be nice to mom. I just want to show up and try to be of use. Then cancer hit. Theres a whole world out there happening, and you can step into all kinds of things, and you dont need to know why youre leaving the house. We have a lot to learn from you. I think we make life a little more interesting! And the potted plant theory, I cant credit it to someone, Im sorry, I dont know who put it out there, but the idea is that if you were to have a plant in your kitchen, you might not be aware of it at all, and then if someone were to remove it, youd say What happened to that plant?. Jan, This is the way this has to be, and its right there. Stay healthy. But I asked the doctor what the right term for me might be, and he said Survivor-in-progress, which was super annoying. Alex, Shes not going to their wedding, shes not going to pick out wedding dresses with them. Maya Shankars Plus One is Christy Warren, a former first responder with 25 years of experience in the field. This is one of the most moving and important conversations weve ever shared and we thank PBS for supporting this work as well as the Lafayette Library and Learning Center for hosting the shoot. Shed do anything. Mahra:Ive been singing these lines from a song by the Avett Brothers to my kids for years, and it goes like this. I heard your friend died, and I just couldnt bear to call them back. It was the very last thing that I wrote, and you may be able to relate to this, theres always one part of a book that writes itself, at least for me, where its like, I guess Ive been thinking about this long enough, I guess Ive been living this long enough that its all kind of been subconsciously forming, and now Im just about taking dictation here, and thats the way that was. Its going to be great. I dont know, but a whole new world of possibilities exist right now that did not exist an hour and 10 minutes ago, and I think that is so cool, and real, and exciting. I was wrong not to try to know her, and I could just see it in his face that it was like, Okay, you understand. Sometimes, were just lacking a bit of language. Society & Culture English We should hold hands for a moment, as a way of marking the glory of a family dinner, and they do that. The successes of independent and feminist Marie Antoinette provoke jealousy and rivalry. Just do your best. Okay, but Im just telling you those kids are waking up every day without her, and theyre going to keep being without her forever. You know, I honestly think I only say Im sorry, and not, I was wrong. I think I might try it. Kelly Corrigan:Theyre never going to not do that, and thats how theyre going to raise their kids, and that means shes still here. Kelly Corrigan:So, my dad died in February, and then my friend Liz, whos the mother of three kids, 8, 10, and 12 at the time, died that December. But first, we need you to sign in to PBS using one of the services below. Were just a series of days and interactions. Forever? I love it that it gives up perfectionism, and it just says, Hey, whats possible today?. Kate Bowler:I guess Ill see you soon. I went to see her one time. Kelly Corrigan:Its like a game changer. You are everywhere they are., Kelly Corrigan:I really believe that, even though Im skeptical, and Im mad at people who say, Her spirits still here, and stuff. Forever? Kelly Corrigan:I never came up with any combination that came close to the feeling. Dont worry, and she said, Well, my problem is I cant zip my dress by myself, so I thought if it was a woman, I could ask her to come in, and zip my dress, and I thought, Thats the tiny moments that are so gut-wrenching for a new widow. Kate Bowler:Thanks so much for doing this. Kelly kicks off a new series on BELIEF, delving into topics like the meaning of life, finding purpose, why faith, service and gratitude matter, and more with Dr. MIchael Murray, former Philosophy Professor and current President & CEO of the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations . She totally doesnt get it. Were jumping in way too soon and talking way too much. Constance shares her experiences as an actress in Hollywood both on and off screen: the privilege and responsibility of representation, being a true artist, navigating social media and an incident which took her to a very dark place.Special thanks to PBS for supporting Tell Me More and this podcast series. Shes not going to hold their babies.. Wondering if youve come across Bahai writings as I find them inspiring in building a circle of friends, a community and help each other grow together. Kelly Corrigan:And then she died, and my dad called, and my dad had nothing but positive things to say to me my entire life, and he said, You should have gone to see your grandmother more. I was wrong not to go visit her. So, its funny that that phrase really begat the whole book in a way, because I had been feeling this shame about not really earning my days here, and then Ed and I were at dinner, and we were talking about the difference between saying Im sorry, and saying I was wrong, and I was saying, God, its so much more powerful though in the humility in saying I was wrong.. Is this how you would have cared for my son?, and you end up fixating on all of these tiny little things, and at the same time, so overwhelmed by not being sure if its trivial or tragic. Dont misread this, my mother was a loving woman, but she passed on this legacy, this painful legacy shed been burdened with, that women should take up as little space as possible, risk as little as possible, and hide our lights lest we make fools of ourselves. Kelly Corrigan:You dont always need such a plan, or an agenda, or whatever. Kate Bowler:You and I are super chatty people, but you make an amazing pitch for silence, and I am all for it, because everyone always had these go-to things to say with me like, You can do it, or Youre so brave, and all the things that made me feel like I was on the other side of plexiglass. Okay, but Im just telling you those kids are waking up every day without her, and theyre going to keep being without her forever. I went to see her one time. In this season of "Tell Me More," listen to one-on-one conversations with musical icons like Jewel and Lang Lang, community leaders like Del Seymour, entertainment heavyweights like Constance Wu and Michael Lewis, scientists like Maya Shankar, and more. Kate Bowler:My life doesnt exactly fit into neat categories anymore. Kate Bowler:Absolutely. It just came out whole, and of course, to me its the most important and moving chapter in the book for sure. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Despair defies description. Kelly Corrigan:Thanks. Its the motto I live by when my opportunities are too big, and my capacity and capabilities too small. Your email address will not be published. I mean, that means shes with them. Kelly Corrigan:And he said, Thats a way to be a parent, which is to say to be there, to be available, to be within view, but not necessarily inserting yourself, because even though as your kids get older and older, it feels like theyre looking for you less and less, it is sort of a comfort to glance over, and see you there, and feel you there, and they would most certainly notice if you werent. Kelly Corrigan:They hate it. So, its funny that that phrase really begat the whole book in a way, because I had been feeling this shame about not really earning my days here, and then Ed and I were at dinner, and we were talking about the difference between saying Im sorry, and saying I was wrong, and I was saying, God, its so much more powerful though in the humility in saying I was wrong.. Im so grateful to hear the ways youre connecting with Kate and Kelly. I didnt engage with her. Kelly Corrigan:And Im getting to walk with them way longer on their road, and I felt this sense that I could never possibly deserve that, that Im not that great a person, or a mom. So, Dont eat a hamster is our version of Dont jump to conclusions.. Whos going to do this? Weeks later, the missing hamster crawled out from under the stove. Kelly Corrigan Wonders listeners will be familiar with Alexs story as we shared it in the episode A Mother Son Story of the Ultimate Transition and it was also replayed it in the For the Good of the Order feed. Kate Bowler:Well, I accept. Kate Bowler:Those ordinary consonants and vowels that, when strung together, offer meaning and points of entry for others. Surely, my friend, my lost and lovely friend, called for new words. Kate Bowler:Oh friend. I mean, I dont know why you went with, Everything Happens for a Reason, because Dont get crumbs on the baby, that could be the follow up. The idea that any day could be this huge day, I dont know, that really gets me out of bed, you know? They hate it. This episode was wonderful, wasnt it? Labels like chronic illness, or caregiver, or widow, or mom of a kid with special needs. Simply becauseIts like this or, my current favorite: Its a species behavior., Nan, I think people think that if you have a diagnosis, or somethings happened to you that you should know because youre proof of it. Hes just one of those people that you think, God, if I could get five minutes with him, Id just tell him my biggest problem, and hed just say something in seven words that would solve everything., Kelly Corrigan:So, eventually I went up to him, and I said, Im caught between these two worlds, this world where Im full of clarity and insight and gratitude, and Im seeing all the big colors of the world. Kelly Corrigan:One that Ive always liked is, Things happen when you leave the house. I think I like the sense of theres something out there that you can tap into. Kelly Corrigan:Well you know, its so funny. Kelly Corrigan:You cant be in the world, and get through your to-do list, and also sit in endless, rich gratitude. Kate Bowler:Well I think part of it, and this gets to another phrase that you write about which is I dont know, but you and I, it sounds like, have given up on certainties as a way to cope with that, both having been through cancer, and also I think both realizing that people really dont like it when you say, I dont know.. I mean, maybe I was projecting, maybe whatever he said in that moment, maybe if he had said peanut butter, and jelly, wed be talking about peanut butter and jelly, but it totally resonated for me in the way that a song lyric does where youre like, I dont know what that means exactly, but Im going to write that down, and put it in my wallet, and its interesting. Kelly Corrigan:Like, Oh, well we still have sex, so were definitely not going to get a divorce, or you know, Oh my husband doesnt travel, so then were definitely not gonna get a divorce, or you know, I never smoked cigarettes, so Im definitely not going to get breast cancer.