If fact it is close to the total that served and suggests that Viet vets don't die as quickly as others.Either the 2010 figures haven't been digested yet or I could not find them. 'I have always attempted to be the best at whatever I undertook, but in this instance, I guess I felt what I actually did was not enough, so I pretended to be something I wasn't,' Switzler said. According to the inflated faker statistics, they would represent about 7% of all adult males, or 1 in 14 men we would run into. Jack Smith, head of the VA's National Center for Stress Recovery in Cleveland, said of the 650 persons treated at his facility in the past two years, just six proved to be fakes. To subscribe, click here. They said, All credit and research to: Capt. They're all around you. Mr . Additionally, the American War Library approximated that around 164,000 Americans who served at . The real Daubmann had been killed in the war. By fits and starts, Burkett learned how to investigate. The alleged 13.8 million fakers or four out of five who claim to be Vietnam vets is CLEARLY stated as being based on U.S. CENSUS DATA, not some independent survey. Torres came back Monday with a U.S. birth certificate it was fake, but for a good cause, he thought. might have found, in those census figures somewhere, a report that suggested 12 It's not as widespread as it was the first 10-30 years immediately after the war,its still out there. Now I see one every six weeks,' said Larry Slessler, head counselor at the Southern Oregon Veterans Outreach Center in Medford, Ore. And rather than doing the hard work of actually trying to become that person, they just do a shortcut of claiming to be that person., DePaulo believes that most people who tell such lies probably are doing so consciously. Very few served in Vietnam. Regardless of what they thought of you before, theres suddenly more substance to you., The lie often starts modestly, Burkett said. A long time ago, I had at least one case of a World War I guy, claiming a Medal of Honor that hed received.. But in a broader sense, DePaulo said, people lie for the same reasons, no matter what they claim to be. does not seem to be accurate and my review of the census doesnt bear this out. Robert French tells us about his remembered involvement with the Roswell crash, but his military record did not support some of his claims. He brought out a shadow box filled with decorations and a folded flag; his kids had made it for him, he said. According to federal law, the United States' military involvement in the Vietnam War began in February 1961 and lasted until May 1975. Whitley, 43, is of a generation that, as she said, learned about the war largely through their TV sets. Foreign Wars (VFW) magazine and from the Reserve Officers Association magazine which That came from everybody. "They give me a blank look.". He apparently fabricated documents claiming hed been awarded the Medal of Honor during his Vietnam War service. The article cited a VA document that reported 80 people had claimed POW benefits for having been captured during the Gulf War, when there were only 21 POWs. Vietnam Veterans represent the largest cohort of American Veterans in . But he'd like it if some of this eased up. That negative image was fresh in Burketts mind when he decided to help a friend in Dallas raise money for Vietnam veterans a quarter century ago. A Commentary on UFOs, Paranormal events, and related topics. They are all repeating the same phony "statistic" of the Stolen Valor book, claiming it is based on Census data. The difference here, I believe, is that I find myself talking to these people because of location while others, given there locations, simply don't run into the fakers.I still haven't found out much about this 1995 Census and I believe there was another in 2005 and maybe 2015 there could have been some sort of study run at the time. As for Burkett, he still gets calls from cops seeking advice on how to run records, or even from skeptical wives and girlfriends who suspect their men may be playing a bit loose with the truth about their exploits in "the 'Nam." (I will note that this is also a politically driven from it to arrive at the 9.4 million. There are many sites devoted to Stolen Valor which had exposed thousands some study that ran parallel to the census. Vietnam Veterans represented 9.7% of their generation. Russell lists more than 400 fakes--mostly Vietnam War impersonators revealed in recent years. There are no firm estimates on the number of fake combat vets. What I havent found I got wounded many times by the same guy. They werent. And Shipley's estimate of 1000 times the true number is also made up and worthless, not based on anything other than Shipley wanting to believe there is some sort of Navy Seal imposter epidemic.Just as a basic gut check that these huge numbers are preposterous, how many people have any of us run into bragging about being Navy Seals or in Vietnam? In 2007 Xavier Alvarez, a member of the Three Valleys Water Board in Claremont, California, was asked during a visit to a neighboring board if he wanted to introduce himself. Other careers, in a variety of fields, have been damaged by similar disclosures. 'A lot of them are groupies. Another at a Veterans Day celebration couldn't identify where he had served other than up north somewhere and seemed unfamiliar with the tactics employed. In an interview with UPI, Castagna said he was a Marine during the Vietnam era, but refused to say if saw combat. . Kristofer Goldsmith, the former chief investigator for the Vietnam Veterans of America, spent years researching how disinformation - including Pro-Trump propaganda - has targeted veterans. CHECKED. And they've been tarred and feathered by this terrible image of what's come out of the Vietnam War.". He then says that from his personal experience, it is much more than this, hence the 1000 fakers for every 10,000 living Seals, or 10 million fake Seals. There are literally millions of them.You can reject, out of hand, the 13 million figure and the military web sites that use it, but I have traced it to its point of origin which was a survey conducted by The Vietnam Veterans Fund and by Captain Scott Beaton so that we have a good source on it. I dont understand your holding onto your point of view with such tenacity. We would like to show you a description here but the site won't allow us. Still, Yandle and veterans groups convinced the Globe and, later, Mike Wallace of the CBS News program "60 Minutes" and then-Massachusetts Gov. He wasn't even sent overseas until September 1968, six months after the Khe Sanh siege was over. An Oregon newspaper learned that Cooley hadnt finished training until nearly a month after the signing of the 1953 armistice. By Elizabeth Becker . I retired in the year 2001. A raspy voice inquired: Are you all still collecting D-Day stories? But I know this didnt just occur starting with the modern wars. Where are all these millions of fakers anyway? You're a person of value," says B. G. "Jug" Burkett, a Vietnam veteran who was the first to expose military imposters in a systematic way, and who coined the term stolen valor. It takes the heart of a Warrior to find deception and take it down. Members of chapter 239 of the Vietnam Veterans of America rushed to his aid. There is no more to be said. Did you get drafted, go in the military? Rather than say, No, I avoided the draft, the guy says, I dont like talking about it.Well, I was in the Army. You serve overseas? Yeah, I was in Vietnam. The next thing you know, the guys being asked to join the VFW., DePaulo more or less agreed: You say something, almost as a trial balloon. ago. fight over the statistics but there is too much information here. How many fake Vietnam veterans are there? An archive compiled by a national prisoner-of-war. He had served time in Georgia for auto theft. I did (it) when I was young and stupid - to impress people.". I've come across some folks that tell stories that are hard to believe.I was amazed to find a guy, walking in a wash at Arches NP that had a MWSG-17 unit cap, which floored me! In 1983, as the Vietnam Veterans of America was gaining prominence, it was disclosed that one of its spokesman was a fake ex-POW. The Secrets and Lies of the Vietnam War, Exposed in One Epic Document. Posted by KRandle at 6:27 PM. Smith calls the phenomenon the 'Tail-Gunner Joe Syndrome,' named for Joe McCarthy, the former flag-waving senator from Wisconsin who tried to rid America of communists in the 1950s. Reject it if you wish, but that doesn't mean it is wrong and look at all the Stolen Valor sites where you will find claimant after claimant who has been exposed. Never in combat, a Marine Times photograph depicts McClanahan spangled with three Silver Stars, two Purples Hearts, and the Legion of Merit. So it becomes But we aren't going to discuss this with the news media,' he said. Between March 1, 2008, and Feb. 25, 2009, the VA investigated 96 cases of stolen valor fraud, according to James ONeill, assistant inspector general for investigations. Burkett candidly admits he's not a writer. But as I soon learned, this fellow was hardly the only person who has fabricated or exaggerated wartime exploits. The number of personnel serving in Vietnam year by year (No. have been able to find reliable statistics on the number of men and women who I was able to chase it to a survey paid for by the Fund for Vietnam Veterans so it wasnt just the census; a fine point I agree but the census did figure into the statistics.So we can continue this no we cant because Im not going to play anymore. This is described as , Statistical Abstract of the United States. Their personal income exceeds that of our non-veteran age group by more than 18 percent. His was the classic story, embraced and portrayed by the media in endless permutations until it became the stuff of legend. Lucky me, Id exposed the lie before the story went to press. OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE Vietnam vets are not. (Yes, this is somewhat Poor or nonexistent record keeping makes such fakery difficult to track much further back in history. Of the 750 people in his graduating class at Princeton, he says 500 went into the service. that in the 2000 census the number had jumped to 14 million, but again, this People are impressed. Why bother to be a faker unless you are going to brag about it to people you meet? It was much easier to do before. I did not look at those sites that required registration, a fee or census and then to the 2000 census but did not explain this problem. But since you want to continue, here we goYou wrote, Further, if you bothered to read Beatons statistics, as at this webite below, said to be written by Beaton and Cpt. Burkett, author of the acclaimed 1998 expos Stolen Valor: How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of its Heroes and its History. Thats a big number approximately 23.6 million. and reports. A casual mention of military service. Back at the office, I started typing up my notes, shaking my head at times. We don't have ads, so we depend on our members 35,000 and counting to help us hold the powerful to account. Any number of personality flaws might drive someone to fabricate a military background, no matter what their station in life. The trouble is I dont know where that 12 David Rudiak was right about that. So I turned the television on and checked the local news. In 1997 Wes S. Cooley, a sitting first-term eastern Oregon congressman, was convicted on charges hed lied about his military service in official state voter guides. All others should not be accepted to have served either on land or at sea in Vietnam. 19 Million Viewers Watched His Story Start To Finish (David Hoffman) How many soldiers died on their first day in Vietnam? Natural attrition through mortality should have reduced the number to around 8.2 million surviving Vietnam era vets. DURING THIS CENSUS COUNT, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027. served in-country, on those who served in areas surrounding Vietnam such as These are a After killing a prison guard, he said, hed been transferred to a labor camp in French-governed Algeria, where, after years of torture, good behavior had earned him a job as a prison tailor. I have found a legitimate source for the large number of imposters which was based on an actual survey so the only error is suggesting the number came from a census, though I have still not found good figures for the 1995 interim census. If you are also in a position of power or authority or prestige, then you might also feel less vulnerable, because you think that people wont challenge you, she said. Some are just shysters,' he said. Web. I have been unable to find that precise survey, but this seems to be the place where the 13,853,027 number of impostors comes from. Robert Sorensen ended his re-election campaign as a state representative in Connecticut in 1982 when it was disclosed that he lied in a floor debate when he said he was a Vietnam vet. State Vietnam Veterans Vietnam Veterans (per 100k) Utah 42,774 1,272 How [] Steph Curry killed off the Kings with a smile, On an island of resorts, this Hawaii hotel is the budget option, Des Linden unveils new book, shares race day must-haves, Why every Californian needs an air quality monitor, Things to do in Napa Valley during Bottlerock, plus hotels, Your Privacy Choices (Opt Out of Sale/Targeted Ads). 9,492,958, and During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely Burkett also exposed actor Brian Dennehy's phony claims, in various interviews, of having been wounded as a Marine in Vietnam. He was driven out of the group. John Martin, a volunteer at at a make-shift POW information center in Washington, D.C., near the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, figures he has seen a half-dozen pretenders in the past month alone. Records showed the actor had spent his 1959-63 stint as a peacetime Marine, playing football for the Corps on Okinawa. During the war, more than 58,000 servicemen and women lost their lives. Perhaps the idea that the lie about military service ultimately becomes a truth in the phony veterans mind explains what happened with my aspiring D-Day Ranger about two weeks after Id caught him lying. (Video) A Vietnam Vet. At the same time, she said, I think it is possible that in some cases, theyve told the lie for so long, and its so integrated into their perceptions of their life experiences, that, psychologically, its almost like a truth, because if theyve been telling the lie for a long time, then they dont have the challenge of someone whos making it up for the first time.. Reporters often interviewed local veterans of the war, Burkett said, and the things they [the veterans] were saying were just bogus as hell. I called my alleged Ranger back, said I wanted to clear up the unit name and asked him twice to repeat it. Here Id called him on his lie, and he had the gumptionthe beliefthe desire to somehow lie again, as if by lying many mines, the lie would turn true. that. How many fake Vietnam veterans are there? All too often, these suffering "veterans" never set foot in Vietnam and yet, the images they offer have permanently shaped the way Americans view soldiers from this war: As slovenly,. It is not. I asked the spokesman if he had a unit roster of some sort. Nobodys going to care.. The point is the magazine has a political agenda. ', 'For years, Vietnam vets were portrayed as crazies. But at the dedication ceremony, despite the hundreds of "normal-looking" vets in the audience -- suits, jackets, neckties on some -- the television news teams immediately gravitated toward "the guys in fatigues and boony hats, the bearded bums. The story was essentially done at that point, but I said, Sure. Who knows? Thank you for acknowledging that the actual U.S. Census data does NOT support the claim that the Census has shown 13-14 million people claiming to have been in-country Vietnam vets, or over 10 million fakers (since only about 2.7 million served in-country).For one thing, the claim was always impossible since I am unable to find any question in the ACTUAL Census that asks whether people served in-country. Bob Fazio, chapter president, refuses to discuss if Castagna was a combat vet. figures).. It is totally made up, apparently to push the author's and other veterans political or emotional agenda.The same goes for Don Shipley and his alleged 10 million fake Navy Seals. How many Vietnam veterans are dying each day? While the charts do not specifically ask about incountry vets it does show the number grew by almost a million in ten years. When his unit came home and started gearing up. 568) comes from DOD statistics, not any public Census data. WASHINGTON -- There is a growing army of imposters hustling for glory, compassion, hand-outs or sometimes just work by posing as Vietnam combat veterans, experts say. First, 'You can normally tell who is a phony. You took part in one of the greatest assaults in U.S. military history?. If you look at the sites and read the information carefully, you will see, as I noted, that some of the information is from ACTUAL Census reports, some from the DoD and some from Beaton's survey.So, you can continue to beat the dead Census reports horse if you so desire, but I believe we (you and I) have corrected the information, we have supplied the links to the web sites and identified the source of the 13 million figure. As for phony Vietnam veterans, I still meet them all the time. 576 (p. 15) has the number of Vietnam era vets as of 1994, listed as 8.246 million. authentic though I suspect the number is close to accurate. ", "This was real people dying real deaths. The efforts of latter-day watch-dogs such as Sterner, Burkett, the Schantags, fake Navy SEALcatcher Steve Robinson and others have given military fakery the appearance of being a modern phenomenon, particularly during the Vietnam era. I explained that given the way some of this was explained on the various sites was somewhat misleading and I was mislead, but you have nothing to prove that it is wrong other than your own beliefs. I had decided that I would Too good to be true! Some men were never in the service, many were in the armed forces but never left the United States or never got the medals they claimed, and a few were in Southeast Asia but were far from any of the hot spots in Vietnam, where the war killed more than 58,000 Americans. Copyright 2023 United Press International, Inc. All Rights Reserved. "But, you know, maybe I'll do a book on all the heroes of Vietnam. Report comments that violate these rules. In the spring of 1998, Burkett managed to convince Wallace and others that Yandle was a fake. awards and decorations they did not earn. A Different Perspective with Kevin Randle Interview - CURT COLLINS - Saucers That Time Forgot. I had something I wanted to say, but I can't continue being the enforcer of this thing around the nation. I The numbers quoted by me were based on all these sources, though it had been suggested, and I followed suit, that some 13,000,000 had lied on the census form. 'Three years ago, I didn't see any. Scott Beaton, Statistical Source. This They range from the one time publisher of a Phoenix newspaper A "Wall of Shame" compiled by former Navy SEAL R.D. They lost buddies in Vietnam and are still having difficulty coping with emotions. Although I then told him what Id learned and asked, Did you lie to me?, In a voice that suddenly sounded creaky and 10 years older yet sort of childlike, as though fearing a reprimand he replied, slowly, Yes.. Ironically, maybe the true millions are those vets defrauded by The VVF, not Vietnam vet imposters. veterans of which according to other sources, about 2.7 actually served in For years, before the Yandle campaign and during it, Burkett had been quietly doing research for a book on phony Vietnam veterans. few: http://www.uswings.com/about-us-wings/vietnam-war-facts/, http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,84591,00.html, http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/02/26/vietnam-facts-vs-fiction/. In 2003, he addressed a rally in Bridgeport, where about 100 military. the same that has been used at many of the sites that I visited. but then remembered that if you set foot in a combat zone even for an hour or I doubt there are 10 million of them, but it appears to me there are a lot of fakes. It lasted about three years. The project, it would turn out, had a profound effect on her. ElbertAlfie 8 mo. It is headed by Bob Castagna of Talent, Ore., whose been accused of being a bogus combat vet himself. to an Illinois judge who claimed he had been awarded the Medal of Honor though he Slessler said many of the imposters he sees suffer from 'survivor guilt.' facts being unverified. SF tourists go in droves to In-N-Out. The second you tell people that you are a veteran, they look at you differently. He was a stateside Marine. 03 North Vietnam sent an estimated 700,000 troops into war. The Nazis, in particular, lionized him. the extreme figures on phonies claiming service in Vietnam (in-country in the The only number coming out of the census was 8.5 million Vietnam era In 2019, approximately 3.4 million Vietnam War Veterans were enrolled for Veterans Health Administration services (12). In Atlanta, VVA chapter officer Ashe estimates that about 20 percent of the up to 200 men who contacted his group since December, saying they are combat vets and asking for help, were frauds. But his fans think he's on to something. There can be problems, however. connection to a census though the connection is not identified. But mistakes have been made. In the military-rich Hampton Roads region, we struck gold: From the pilots who flew the paratroopers to the infantrymen who stormed the beaches, I was able to relate the entire D-Day narrative chronologically, all through veterans eyes. The census figures do confirm the 8.5 million number. That is the one common thread., In Burketts mind, most fakers do so because of low self-esteem. One of the best-known examples was Walter Williams, who claimed to have served in the Confederate army under Gen. John Bell Hood. 04 Both South Vietnam and the United States of America committed nearly 5 million troops into war. Like the nonexistent Census data of 10 million fakers, this seems to be all totally made up by Shipley to push his own agenda. Military discharge records can be obtained through the Pentagon. is in agreement that there were only , 1,713,823 He had been a prisoner, but not in Vietnam. There have been hundreds of fakers exposed in the press in the I'm busy with the 'Convoy to the Wall' that will hopefully help vets put the war in the past,' said Castagna, member of VVA chapter 179. If that was closer to the true figure, then the 200,000 fakers evaporate.Having found maybe a few thousand fakers is a VERY, VERY LONG way (by a factor of at least one thousand) from the 10+ million claimed in the "Stolen Valor" book, allegedly based on Census data, and endlessly repeated in multiple vet publications, including the websites you linked to. REALITY: He was a Marine football player in Okinawa. what was claimed in that article is false but there was no warning about the however, that the information is not drawn from the 1990 census and might be related to one that Someone says, Hey, Joe, youre of the age for Vietnam. 'I think this is part of the same phenomenon of human nature that we have seen since the times of the Romans and Greeks,' he said. "I've got other things I want to do in life, and chasing down phony Vietnam vets is not the way I want to spend it. 'It tears you up inside to see this sort of thing.'. I'm interested in real vets who have their own problems.'. I would think of as reliable sources except I do not have copies of either And, oh by the way, a Purple Heart and a few other honors earned. of other fakers. He wasnt a Vietnam veteran, Burkett said. confusing and contradictory, but I think they were referring first to the 1995 Marshal Hanson (and apparently quoted by every vet site as complete gospel), he provides the U.S. Census as the source, just like everybody else:www.veteranstoday.com/2009/02/26/vietnam-facts-vs-fiction/ Interesting CENSUS STATS and Been There Wanabees: a. The universal attitude was, 'Why should we give money for these bums?' Or maybe you dont even mean it consciously as a trial balloon, but you put something out there, and it works and maybe gets a good reaction. The news must have been slow that day, because the reenactment was the lead story. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1395584&mpage=1&key=�.